68060 on the TT!

[Cyprian]

In seriousness.. if someone sells me an atari TT for "not a donation but not taking the Gipsy Kiss" prices i will do a TF4060 to TT port

Any ideas? any voluteriees?

More you can find there:
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/forum/viewt ... =30#p80987

[FlorKendall]

That's great to have 68060 accelerator board for TT but what about 68060RC60 CPU availability ?
No "real" CPU, No board use.

[mikro]

I'd settle even with a 030@50 MHz or 040@whatever MHz.

[mrbombermillzy]

That's great to have 68060 accelerator board for TT but what about 68060RC60 CPU availability ?
No "real" CPU, No board use.

Maybe if someone ported a few FPS games like quake/doom into 680x0 integer math, then it may convince people that they dont need the full RC.

Another thing to consider, specifically for the TT, is the board revision (i.e. daughterboard/onboard CPU). Not sure of the number split of each type. Would maybe need to poll users, unless someone knows of board revision sales figures already.

[PeterS]

I still think there is a market for a fpga 68060.

[mrbombermillzy]

or 040@whatever MHz.

Im pretty sure Terriblefire told me he will NOT produce a 040 card as he doesnt like them.

Badwolf seems to be progressing well with his 030@40/50 card.

[mrbombermillzy]

I still think there is a market for a fpga 68060.

If that were possible it would solve the CPU price/fake lottery problem somewhat.

[czietz]

I'd settle even with a 030@50 MHz

My TT is running at 48 MHz.

[viking272]

That's great to have 68060 accelerator board for TT but what about 68060RC60 CPU availability ?
No "real" CPU, No board use.

I think the defacto 68060 CPU has to be the LC now ... but is it possible to use an LC chip without MMU features for regular use (e.g. MiNT, EmuTOS, demos, games etc)

[PeterS]

I still think there is a market for a fpga 68060.

If that were possible it would solve the CPU price/fake lottery problem somewhat.

It could wipe out that fake market.

[mfro]

I still think there is a market for a fpga 68060.

A full '060's silicon has more than 10 times the gate count of a '030 (which in turn has 4 times the gate count of a plain 68000). That's not something you stitch together during a Sunday afternoon...

[Cyprian]

That's great to have 68060 accelerator board for TT but what about 68060RC60 CPU availability ?
No "real" CPU, No board use.

I think the defacto 68060 CPU has to be the LC now ... but is it possible to use an LC chip without MMU features for regular use (e.g. MiNT, EmuTOS, demos, games etc)

I think LC would not work well, as the OS and demos need MMU

[czietz]

It's a misconception, which I sometimes hear, that the 68030's MMU in the TT is purportedly only used by MiNT for memory protection. That is not true, however. Even TOS uses the MMU to mirror (among other things) the IO address space (at 0xFFFFxxxx and 0x00FFxxxx) and to set up caching rules.

And then there is software, of course, that uses the MMU to implement virtual memory.

Better start saving for a "full" 68060 ...

[ThorstenOtto]

Of course that MMU setup done by TOS has to be adopted to 060 anyway. Even the TTRs are different. And i doubt that programs like outside or VRAM work on 060

But in general i agree that one can live without an FPU, but a MMU is required.

[Cyprian]

68060 availability is a problem,

I'm wondering about one more thing - the CPU slot.
IIRC the TT has three slots: ST-RAM, TT-RAM and VME, and there is no dedicated CPU slot.
Or would be possible to use TT-RAM slot for the new CPU?

[ragnar76]

First wave of TTs have a socket for the CPU-Daughterboards

[czietz]

Or would be possible to use TT-RAM slot for the new CPU?

No, it lacks a lot of signals that would be required.

First wave of TTs have a socket for the CPU-Daughterboards

While daughterboard TTs are the easiest to upgrade (I know for a fact that one can design an essentially plug-and-play accelerator), they are also the least common. An accelerator needs to cover all three models: daughterboard TT, TT with onboard PGA CPU, TT with SMD CPU.

[Cyprian]

ok, I found cool page with the TT motherboard revisions: https://www.atariancomputing.com/blog/t ... on-guide-4

[ijor]

I wonder if software emulation, or may be hybrid emulation, isn't a better solution. An RPI with a CPLD might be able to do the job. Conceivable, it should also be possible to virtualize some code for even better performance.

[stormy]

Or would be possible to use TT-RAM slot for the new CPU?

No, it lacks a lot of signals that would be required.

I am wondering, I realise the VME does not support bus mastering etc, the required signals, but does it support 'most' signals and can the missing ones be routed with a patch cable? Similar to how the Thunder IDE has two patch cables running from it.

[1st1]

And then there is software, of course, that uses the MMU to implement virtual memory.

Don't forget tools loke romram, gemram, etc. to map TOS ROM into ram and then live patching of TOS with WinX.

[artik-wroc]

IIRC the TT has three slots: ST-RAM, TT-RAM and VME, and there is no dedicated CPU slot.
Or would be possible to use TT-RAM slot for the new CPU?

Only a driver needed
https://www.kontron.com/en/products/vm62/p86833

[Cyprian]

IIRC the TT has three slots: ST-RAM, TT-RAM and VME, and there is no dedicated CPU slot.
Or would be possible to use TT-RAM slot for the new CPU?

Only a driver needed
https://www.kontron.com/en/products/vm62/p86833

would be cool,
unfortunately VME in the TT and Mega STE doesn't support such cards (lack of bus mastering?): viewtopic.php?p=185295#p185295

[1st1]

This card will also not be able to adress the TT full adress range as the TT VME bus has only 24 adress bits.

[Dark Willow]

Not a hardware expert, but just stumbled across this and had a few ideas...

* FPGA-ed 060 is almost certainly a non starter, but could an alternative be using a Coldfire? It does introduce compatibility issues, but unlike the Firebee you'd still have the original 68030 to switch back to for legacy applications, and could work out much cheaper than a "real" 68060 and involve a LOT less work than an FPGA solution.

* Any CPU accelerator is going to hampered by video limitations of the TT - TT-High is the only really decent mode and you have to mess about with adapters to get it. Incorporating improved video into the design would be a big benefit. It could potentially draw off work done on the Supervidel or firebee to get true modern quality video modes. A simpler, if cruder, alternative could be hosting an ET4000 based solution on the board - the ET4000 chip itself is (unlike ET4k ISA cards) still fairly easily available and quite cheap. Adding PCI support is another option but less elegant imho, and PCI cards with chipsets that are supported on Atari are only becoming harder to get and more expensive as time goes on.