What's this Falcon board?

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Lynxman
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by Lynxman »

catmando wrote:
joska wrote:It can only be used with 1Mb or 4Mb in the normal RAM slot. It offers 4Mb or 8Mb of "alt-RAM".
What happens if you have 14mb in the normal ram slot?
The Falcon Magnum needs a driver to work.

I tried what happen if 14MB and Magnum is installed.
As long as the Magnum driver is not loaded the Falcon works. I tried only GEM and started some small programs, no big testing.

If driver is loaded it will not work.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by Rustynutt »

An assembly programmer (sorry to forget your name but thanks for the help) sent me code to compile an org that told TOS where TT ram was located and amount on a Mighty Sonic years ago. Prolly basically the same. In this card, address was same as TT. Purpose was to discover basically what NVDI did all along :)
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by MegaSTEarian »

Resurrecting an old thread but I have some questions:
- Can the Magnum card be used when the Falcon already has 16MB RAM? If not, is it a driver issue?
- What is the 50MHz I the bottom of the card as shown in the photo? And what does the "Overscan Inside" imply?
s-l1600.jpg
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by joska »

No, it can't be used with more than 4Mb conventional RAM, because the Magnum card occupies the address range from 4Mb and upwards.

The "Overscan inside"-part is IIRC just space for an oscillator that feeds the Videl with an external pixel clock input. Same as other screen expanding hardware for the Falcon. "Overscan" is a piece of hardware that's plugged into the Falcon's monitor port, "Overscan inside" is just an internally connected variant.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by Rustynutt »

Lynxman wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:05 am
catmando wrote:
joska wrote:It can only be used with 1Mb or 4Mb in the normal RAM slot. It offers 4Mb or 8Mb of "alt-RAM".
What happens if you have 14mb in the normal ram slot?
The Falcon Magnum needs a driver to work.

I tried what happen if 14MB and Magnum is installed.
As long as the Magnum driver is not loaded the Falcon works. I tried only GEM and started some small programs, no big testing.

If driver is loaded it will not work.
That was something i'd though to test, but wasn't sure if having a manual toggle on the ST RAM kart between 4 and 16 would have the Falcon read installed memory as such.
Been keen with a Nova installed, then going to VIDEL mode, having 14mb ST RAM with a switch. That's stuff for the experts to answer, but as you have shown, sometimes it just takes a bit of "testing" :)
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by Rustynutt »

MegaSTEarian wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:26 pm Resurrecting an old thread but I have some questions:
- Can the Magnum card be used when the Falcon already has 16MB RAM? If not, is it a driver issue?
- What is the 50MHz I the bottom of the card as shown in the photo? And what does the "Overscan Inside" imply?

s-l1600.jpg
The card on the way to you is unpopulated as well.
Think you would have better luck on atari forum.de for info on how to complete the circuit.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by MegaSTEarian »

joska wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:13 pm No, it can't be used with more than 4Mb conventional RAM, because the Magnum card occupies the address range from 4Mb and upwards.

The "Overscan inside"-part is IIRC just space for an oscillator that feeds the Videl with an external pixel clock input. Same as other screen expanding hardware for the Falcon. "Overscan" is a piece of hardware that's plugged into the Falcon's monitor port, "Overscan inside" is just an internally connected variant.
Thanks for the info.

Do you know which oscillator can be used with it (type and maybe a link) and if it needs an extra GAL?
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by MegaSTEarian »

Rustynutt wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:20 pm
MegaSTEarian wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:26 pm Resurrecting an old thread but I have some questions:
- Can the Magnum card be used when the Falcon already has 16MB RAM? If not, is it a driver issue?
- What is the 50MHz I the bottom of the card as shown in the photo? And what does the "Overscan Inside" imply?

s-l1600.jpg
The card on the way to you is unpopulated as well.
Think you would have better luck on atari forum.de for info on how to complete the circuit.
Yup, I got it today hence all the questions :)
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by Rustynutt »

MegaSTEarian wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:24 pm
Rustynutt wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:20 pm
MegaSTEarian wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:26 pm Resurrecting an old thread but I have some questions:
- Can the Magnum card be used when the Falcon already has 16MB RAM? If not, is it a driver issue?
- What is the 50MHz I the bottom of the card as shown in the photo? And what does the "Overscan Inside" imply?

s-l1600.jpg
The card on the way to you is unpopulated as well.
Think you would have better luck on atari forum.de for info on how to complete the circuit.
Yup, I got it today hence all the questions :)
While sort of legacy now, remember it came at a time when Falcon Wings and other ST RAM cards used 4 30 pin sims horizontally. Nice design for the time.
I'll bet that 8mb 72 pin Simm wasn't cheap then :)
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by Cyprian »

Rustynutt wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:55 pm While sort of legacy now, remember it came at a time when Falcon Wings and other ST RAM cards used 4 30 pin sims horizontally. Nice design for the time.
I'll bet that 8mb 72 pin Simm wasn't cheap then :)
Falcon has 16bit bus therefore 8bit 30pin Simms fit better than 32bit 72 pin Simms
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by joska »

Cyprian wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 pm Falcon has 16bit bus therefore 8bit 30pin Simms fit better than 32bit 72 pin Simms
That's just a wiring issue. I'm pretty sure that the real reason for using 30pin SIMMs was cost and availability at the time.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by Rustynutt »

Cyprian wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 pm
Rustynutt wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:55 pm While sort of legacy now, remember it came at a time when Falcon Wings and other ST RAM cards used 4 30 pin sims horizontally. Nice design for the time.
I'll bet that 8mb 72 pin Simm wasn't cheap then :)
Falcon has 16bit bus therefore 8bit 30pin Simms fit better than 32bit 72 pin Simms
Bus wise, not keyboard wise :)
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by Rustynutt »

Also, wanted to run HD Driver in Alt RAM, so let Falcon boot using minimum config HD Driver, then again in auto folder. Don't know about speed, did notice that memory used by HD Driver wasn't released after running it again from auto. But not until pulling the board to ship. Once going back to 4mb ST RAM, couldn't figure out why so much memory was used. Removing HD Driver from autofolder got it all back :)
So, think it best to let the sleeping dog lay there.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by Lynxman »

Cyprian wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 pm
Rustynutt wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:55 pm While sort of legacy now, remember it came at a time when Falcon Wings and other ST RAM cards used 4 30 pin sims horizontally. Nice design for the time.
I'll bet that 8mb 72 pin Simm wasn't cheap then :)
Falcon has 16bit bus therefore 8bit 30pin Simms fit better than 32bit 72 pin Simms
The 68030 is used as 16Bit in the Falcon, but the Falcon Memory is 32bit wide bound directly to the Videl.
Crazy design I know. But due to this it makes no sence to say 8 Bit Simms fit better.
If someone doesn´t believe, please check the schematic.

The Falcon Magnum card use 72pin Simm, but as 16 Bit. Because it is directly to the CPU.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by calimero »

Lynxman wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:11 pm
Cyprian wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 pm
Rustynutt wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:55 pm While sort of legacy now, remember it came at a time when Falcon Wings and other ST RAM cards used 4 30 pin sims horizontally. Nice design for the time.
I'll bet that 8mb 72 pin Simm wasn't cheap then :)
Falcon has 16bit bus therefore 8bit 30pin Simms fit better than 32bit 72 pin Simms
The 68030 is used as 16Bit in the Falcon, but the Falcon Memory is 32bit wide bound directly to the Videl.
Crazy design I know. But due to this it makes no sence to say 8 Bit Simms fit better.
If someone doesn´t believe, please check the schematic.

The Falcon Magnum card use 72pin Simm, but as 16 Bit. Because it is directly to the CPU.
As I understand Rodolphe Czuba (on his website), if Falcon had 32bit memory (to CPU) then it would need 2MB or 8MB of RAM...?

Did I understand this correctly?
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by Lynxman »

2 or 8MB if 32 Bit?

I do not understand.

The schematic show how it is made.
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by calimero »

Lynxman wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:02 pm 2 or 8MB if 32 Bit?

I do not understand.

The schematic show how it is made.
Here is Rodolphe text that I refer to: http://powerphenix.com/rodolphe.czuba.f ... echnic.htm
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Re: What's this Falcon board?

Post by Cyprian »

calimero wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:42 pm Here is Rodolphe text that I refer to: http://powerphenix.com/rodolphe.czuba.f ... echnic.htm
exactly that thing - a memory bank "interleaving" I was thinking about when I wrote that: "Falcon has 16bit bus therefore 8bit 30pin Simms fit better than 32bit 72 pin Simms"
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