Ambermoon remake

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AnachronyX
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Ambermoon remake

Post by AnachronyX »

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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by kcr2000 »

That is great, but the question is: Will there ever be an Atari version?
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by saulot »

Remake is in c#, so to port it to atari everything had to be rewritten/reworked to c/asm. Not to mention that whole thing is still unfinished.
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by kcr2000 »

What about the original by the way? Would that be easier? Sadly I have no idea of programming, but seeing Ambermoon on Atari would be a dream come true for me ;-)
A revently released music demo is already there and it sounds fantastic.
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by mikro »

I'm afraid that we have reached the stage when new reimplementations for any game wont be in C/C++ anymore... our only source of interesting ports will be source code releases of the games from the 90s.

I guess disassembling & changing the Amiga version wouldn't be entirely impossible, could be a nice winter project for someone. :)
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by alexh »

All there ever was of Atari Ambermoon AFAIK is the original demo of the 3D engine by Michael Bittner. And the music conversion by Big Alec

Unlike previous Thalion games Ambermoon is much less "bang the metal" and doesn't disable AmigaOS but instead uses it for HDD support and file saving etc. An Atari conversion is not impossible but unlikely. Especially seeing as how no-one has fixed the Ambermoon AmigaOS memory allocator bug in 27 years!
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by calimero »

using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by AtariFan »

It's still WIP.
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by alexh »

calimero wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:19 pm Hey!

This remake is FINISHED!?! :) :)

https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoon.net/issues/63
That’s the roadmap. It’s only up to 0.8 beta
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by calimero »

To bad :(

I will wait for this remake... I try to play Ambermoon on Amiga (winuae) but 3D part is really annoing - it ruin the game.

Amberstar on ST is awesome! I finish game few times.

Btw
Did anyone found trick to multiply items in invertori (including pieces of Amberstar)? IIRC When game ask you to change flopy, you deliberatly insert “wrong” disk (one of three disk keep invertory records) and you can double every item.
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by AtariFan »

V1.0 of Ambermoon for PC (Windows & Linux) and Mac is available now.
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by wietze »

AtariFan wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:36 pm V1.0 of Ambermoon for PC (Windows & Linux) and Mac is available now.
On MAC, it opens a window to a black screen (no display) on both bundle and standalone.
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by dhedberg »

wietze wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:45 pm
AtariFan wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:36 pm V1.0 of Ambermoon for PC (Windows & Linux) and Mac is available now.
On MAC, it opens a window to a black screen (no display) on both bundle and standalone.
Works on Windows. :-)
Playing now...
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by calimero »

Works on MacBook Air M1 and Big Sure!

It is FANTASTICS!!! Best thing in last couple of years... :) :)
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by calimero »

I can not express how much joy uplifted Ambermoon for Mac bring to me :)

- AmberStar is one of the best game that I ever played. And I miss AmberMoon since I did not have Amiga at time. I did try to play AmberMoon in WinUAE but it still was bad experience for my because of 3D part. Now, with Pyrdacor AmberMoon and WASD control, it is a real joy!

I wanted to ask if there is any personal information why and how Pyrdacor did it? But I wound this "sponsor" link on his web site (btw his website url can be found only in readme.txt !): https://github.com/sponsors/Pyrdacor where he talks about his motivation and how he did it. There is also more infos on "About" page: https://www.pyrdacor.net/about

As far sa I understand, he did not decompile game but he rather "watch" original Ambermoon and then recreate game in C#?

btw
I do not remember exact music on Amiga, but did Pyrdacor use 100% original music in his AmberMoon?
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by Pyrdacor »

Hi there. calimero pointed me to this forum. ;)

About the "How" and the "Why" I have to tell a lot. Unfortunately my time is very limited to document all this. Some things about the "How" are indirectly documented inside some "Issues" of the github issue tracker. Especially here and here.

The motivation behind this project is easy. I got the Amiga and Ambermoon as child. It was my first RPG ever and what should I say. I loved it and was totally fascinated by the huge world and its atmosphere. I started to write walkthroughs, books and even planned a sequel ages ago (I guess my earliest plans for a sequel are at least 15 years old).

So Ambermoon was always a part of my life and I always wished to create a game like it. What kept me away from porting it to PC was the deep belief, that it is just not possible. I didn't have any source code, I didn't know anything about Amiga programming and architecture and I knew that recreating a whole game is too much of work.

But a few years ago I stumbled on a port of The Settlers by a swedish guy called Jon Lund Steffensen called freeserf (http://jonls.dk/freeserf). The Settlers was another game which fascinated me as a child and I also wanted to create such a game. :D So seeing this project I realized that it is possible somehow. I invested most of my free time into a port of freeserf from C++ to C#. I know a bit unconventional but I liked C# very much at that point and I can do stuff very fast with it. Another reason for the port was, that freeserf missed the AI component. And I wasn't into C++ anymore at that time (even though I did C++ for several years) and didn't want to develop the AI in C++. So I ported to C# in a short amount of time (it was kind of a fulltime job, and I guess I managed to do my 40h job as a sideline for months). Finally I could implement the AI and I even started to implement a multiplayer mode. I mean a real one! Not a split screen. So you can play The Settlers in a multiplayer game via LAN or Internet.

At that time I still considered Ambermoon to be too hard to port. And then (as I still was a fan and read much about Ambermoon on fansites like the one from Alex) I stumbled onto an article which talked about the data driven development of Ambermoon. It was written by Jurie Horneman :).

I was interested. Data driven means that lots of the game logic, which is normally implemented in code, is represented by pure data. I knew I was pretty good at analyzing data and make sense out of it. So I searched the web for resources of Ambermoon. I found the AmberWorlds project and slothsoft which decoded parts of the data or even provided tools. The projects seemed rather dead. And I found an Ambermoon project on gitlab (by Nico Bendlin) which also provided valuable resources.

So I thought, maybe I can decode some data as well. And so I did. Quiet successful imo. I started to create a map loader and displayed it. Luckily I could reuse great parts of my freeserf.net engine (which I implemented from scratch).

It took not to long until I could render 2D maps of Ambermoon. 2D maps were already decoded to a great extend before I started and displaying tiles with my engine wasn't that hard anymore. Then I decoded more and more stuff. Some through testing and looking which bytes change and some through just looking at bytes and make sense out of it. For example when you see some bytes in character data you can compare the characters and try to guess what it could be. Then you change the byte and see what happens in the Amiga version to be sure. I continued this process and so finally I could implement all features and decode all game data. There is not much left which is not yet decoded. And if so those bits and bytes mostly are unused by Ambermoon (maybe Amberstar used some of them, as they share much of the formats).

One of the hardest part were 3D maps. It took me quiet a while but finally I also managed to decode the whole 3D map data, skies, lighting, 3D monsters and objects, move paths and so on. I am very proud of that part as it was pretty hard and I did it nearly without any reverse engineering but just by wrapping my head around bits and bytes and playing with ideas.

Ah yeah speaking of reverse engineering. I never saw m68k before. I have a book about x86 Assembler in my bookshelf but that's it. Luckiy a guy called kermitfrog joined the project on github and offered some help. He managed to setup a debugger and was in general very good in finding code locations. He analyzed some things for me, that were not clear and also pointed me in the right directions. With my pieces of knowledge about assembler I finally also started reverse engineering. Again I could make good sense out of code fragments and found many things. Sometimes it was also guessing and assuming but in the end all dots were connected.

So here we are now. Ambermoon.net is released and beside some minor bugs it is quiet stable and runs on multiple platforms. I always was a fan of open source and cross platform development. It isn't always easy but I deeply think that the world is there to share ideas, resources and joy. :)

With Ambermoon.net I fulfilled a dream of mine, which I never really thought to come true. And there is more. My knowledge about Ambermoon has grown a lot. So I feel to be capable of creating mods and even a sequel now.
Last edited by Pyrdacor on Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:17 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by Pyrdacor »

calimero wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:38 am I do not remember exact music on Amiga, but did Pyrdacor use 100% original music in his AmberMoon?
Yes I did. I am not a fan of MP3s. I invested a lot of time to decode the SonicArranger file format and player code. This way I was able to load and play the original music files.

And for the same reason there is now a library for PCs and Macs to load and convert SonicArranger files, which was not achieved before. From my code it might also be possible to create converters for other systems like the Atari etc. As the most challenging aspect was to find out how the player works. When I have the time for it, I will document the whole process of SonicArranger music playback. I started it already but have lots of other things to do at the moment.
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by mikro »

Great work! My only regret is that you lost interest in C++, had you implemented this game in C++, it would basically beg to be ported back to (higher-end) Atari. ;-)
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by Pyrdacor »

I am sorry for that. But I guess with C++ I might have not finish it yet or at all. C# eases and speeds up development drastically. At least more me. I wouldn't have be able to do this in C++ at that point in time.

But hey, I ported freeserf from C++ to C# in a few months as well. Maybe I can do it with Ambermoon vice versa. :D Jokes aside, but I guess porting from C# to C++ isn't as hard as porting Amiga m68k binary to C#. Especially with frameworks like SDL or SMFL it should be doable in a couple of month. Unfortunately I won't have the time nor motivation for such a huge project in the near future.
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by Pyrdacor »

I released version 1.1 of Ambermoon.net today. It fixes many bugs and includes the latest original game versions (English 1.10 and German. 1.09) which also provide several bugfixes.

Downloads as usual at https://github.com/Pyrdacor/Ambermoon.net or www.pyrdacor.net.

Have fun! :)
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Re: Ambermoon remake

Post by dhedberg »

Great! Thanks!
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