Atari Mint on 68k Macintosh

[stormy]

Allo,

I've been playing about with a Mac recently and discovered this:

https://macmint.superglobalmegacorp.com/

Just wondered if anyone else has experience with it? I wonder if I could install Xaaes/teradesk on it, but I get the feeling its just the console.

[joska]

MacMiNT is a console application only, there is no VDI. Also, it's based on a very old version of MiNT so no current AES would have worked on it anyway.

[ThorstenOtto]

You would need a VDI driver, for example for fVDI. Not impossible, but still some work. Maybe for monochrome you can even use the 1-plane driver (dunno how the video memory in a Mac is organized).

[Eero Tamminen]

W Window System supported MacMiNT. Jonathan Oddie contributed the MacMiNT (monocrome, 8-bit palette, mouse & keyboard driver) support in 1999, and there were few fixes in 2000, but I don't have Mac, so I don't know whether MacMiNT support still works out of the box with later WWS versions: http://eerott.mbnet.fi/open.shtml#wws

If you give it a try, send me a note!

[TomH]

You would need a VDI driver, for example for fVDI. Not impossible, but still some work. Maybe for monochrome you can even use the 1-plane driver (dunno how the video memory in a Mac is organized).

It's the most trivial layout possible — it's linear from one of two selectable start addresses*, with the MSB of each word being the first pixel out and the LSB the last. 1 = black, 0 = white. So it's colour inverted compared to the ST (and a different size) but otherwise the same. And the pixels are square.

An interrupt is offered on vsync, and you can poll for whether pixel output is currently active; there's the usual time division of RAM access that you'd expect from anything of that era so you don't need to do anything special to avoid snow/sparkle.

There's no mouse cursor sprite or anything like that, just the frame buffer.

Speaking of the pre-ADB machines: the mouse is the standard quadrature thing of the era, generating interrupts on changes in X1 and Y1 and leaving the processor to sample X2 and Y2 at interrupt to determine direction of movement. The mouse button is polled, it isn't an interrupt source. The keyboard is serial, feeding into and out of a VIA shift register. So it can trigger interrupts. But the keyboard itself supplies the clock, so you'll occasionally hit the 6522 shiter race condition bug. Very rarely though as it's only ever one-or-two byte packets, as infrequently as a human types. The built-in firmware just does a retry anytime a transmission goes awry.

* either 0xffff2700 or 0xffffa700, each masked to however much RAM there actually is. One of the VIA outputs selects either the one or the other.

EDIT: wait, obviously I've been stupid posting the above. I would dare imagine it's also accurate for the SE/30, which has a 68030, but otherwise it applies only to 68000 machines that hugely predate those that MacMint aims to support. Anything colour with a 68020 or better makes no guarantees about its video hardware beyond that they'll provide suitable firmware. Apple made no efforts towards hardware compatibility between models.

[Rustynutt]

Realizing there's adventure to most everything, as a M68K MagiC Mac user, resistance is futile.
What is it that can't be done running MagiC as opposed to JET or MacMiNT?

[stormy]

Realizing there's adventure to most everything, as a M68K MagiC Mac user, resistance is futile.
What is it that can't be done running MagiC as opposed to JET or MacMiNT?

I completely forgot about this software! Looking forward to playing about with it, thanks for reminding me

As for what macmint offers over this, probably the entire Unix sparemint repository of Unix software? I think

[stormy]

Realizing there's adventure to most everything, as a M68K MagiC Mac user, resistance is futile.
What is it that can't be done running MagiC as opposed to JET or MacMiNT?

Hey Rusty, just a quick one... I'm testing out MagicMac, I quickly went through the configuration at the begining by clicking 'ok ok ok' without reading, the system came up and works. But I cannot work out how to get back into the configuration, even if I remove/reinstall MagicMac it doesn't come back now. I think there are dialogue options 'above' the Atari display, but I can't work out how to access them. Any idea? Thx

[Rustynutt]

Been a long time since having my Quadra up and running, sorry, I'd be guessing. I'm sure I have the manual if not on line.

Agreed, MiNT opens up an entire world.
For DTP, or most packages that work across the Atari platform, MagiCMac is the trick. Using Gembench (at the time), the Quadra runs the O/S as fast as the Afterburner, in 16bit video.
I don't have any experience with the Power Mac or PC version.

[Rustynutt]

Found my MagiC Mac manuals. My German isn't good enough to easily translate, maybe someone has an English manual.
In The Day, Robert Schaffner helped me set up an account on ASH's BBS, and purchased directly from them before System Solutions began distro in the UK.

[Rustynutt]

After I get the Milan 060 up, which is behind testing a MKX extensively, i'll get around to setting up the Quadra. Last I'd opened it up, installed a DayStar 50mhz 040 card with cache. Fast, but kind of unstable. There's a few graphics apps on the Mac that easily convert to an image format easily imported for Atari applications. One think is called Jackal, imaging processing softs, the others are Kai's Power Goo, kind of like the stuff you can do with Apex Media. It has its use

[mrbombermillzy]

Slightly off topic, but still relvant...

I was wondering about how much work it would be to have EmuTOS ported to the Mac Quadras. (EmuTOS already supports '040 and its jumped to Amiga too, so anything is possible).

However, Im guessing the answer is pretty much 'hard work' as from what I have experienced from the Apple computers of that era, theres like 101 different architectures. That and Apple try not to let you anywhere near the hardware.

It would be great nevertheless... especially if one day they emulate the Falcons DSP using the 660/840av 3210 DSP!

[ThorstenOtto]

Main difficulty will be the almost non-existing documentation about the hardware. As a start:

- use a monochrome resolution. Figure out at which address the screen is located (IIRC that is hardwired). I think the layout at least for monochrome will be the same as for ST
- then you will need at least drivers for the keyboard, the mouse and some system timer.

I'm not sure whether the hardware supports reporting bus-errors (ie. the Amiga does not). If not, you might be in trouble when EmuTOS tries to probe hardware, and you carefully have to check all those check_read_byte() calls. But with the above drivers, you should be able to boot to the desktop.

The question is, whether that is worth the effort. I don't know many people who ever owned a Quadra, and lots of things that have to be implemented will be more or less guesswork.

[mrbombermillzy]

@Thorsten:

Well, I have come across someone who has managed to circumvent the bootstrap code and inject his own routines...Thats a start.

But Im not sure how 'managed' the hardware is from the OS level; quite a bit I imagine as they were all slightly different so needed some sort of OS level of order, or like you say, if there are any provisions for bus errors or if they are compatibly wired enough like the Ataris.

And as you are asking. Not many people probably owned one, and probably not worth the effort. But nowadays, you can pick up the equivalent 68040 or if you keep an eye out an 040 with DMA, high colour graphics/high(ish) resolutions and DSP for far less than any Falcon! Its a shame really.

[Rustynutt]

Above my head, but if I understand what you're saying, that's a step to allow booting a 68060 on the Quadras, something that has never been done.

[Rustynutt]

Forgot about having the German manual xlated.
Had some cutting done on the body, then non related Atari stuff occurred.

[mrbombermillzy]

Above my head, but if I understand what you're saying, that's a step to allow booting a 68060 on the Quadras, something that has never been done.

I suppose so. Easiest thing I guess would be to patch the OS. Not sure how easy to decompile and actually understand an Apple ROM is.

[mrbombermillzy]

Forgot about having the German manual xlated.
Had some cutting done on the body, then non related Atari stuff occurred.

Are you feeling well? lol

[Rustynutt]

"we're fine". (as long as the meds hold out! Then go off on long-winded post and rants).

Forgot what the Mac term is, sort of like a CPX in the Atari world. Most 3rd party hardware required them to initialize. System Extension?
Prolly documented somewhere.
Last I'd read about the addition of an 060, there's a similar issue as with TOS 4.04. Early on in the ROM, there are illegal 060 instructions. Why cards like the 060 load TOS into RAM and modify it to boot from.

[stormy]

I still haven't worked out how to reset the configuration on MagicMac, it is so strange. When installing it asked me lots of configuration questions in German, but if you uninstall it and reinstall it never asks these again, and I cannot work out how to bring this configuration up when inside MagicMac. Still, if anyone can help me with this I'd be very happy.

[Rustynutt]

Have you seen/dug through any of these files? I'm not seeing anything in the (German) manual.
Lot of text archives here.

https://gitlab.com/AndreasK/Atari-Mac-M ... ree/master

I still haven't worked out how to reset the configuration on MagicMac, it is so strange. When installing it asked me lots of configuration questions in German, but if you uninstall it and reinstall it never asks these again, and I cannot work out how to bring this configuration up when inside MagicMac. Still, if anyone can help me with this I'd be very happy.

[Rustynutt]

I still haven't worked out how to reset the configuration on MagicMac, it is so strange. When installing it asked me lots of configuration questions in German, but if you uninstall it and reinstall it never asks these again, and I cannot work out how to bring this configuration up when inside MagicMac. Still, if anyone can help me with this I'd be very happy.

Been a bit
Was on the lookout for a Quadra AV model, sort of a supplement (for compatibility reasons) to the Afterburner/NOVA/Expose setup.

Not inclined to spend $2500 for an 840AV, picked up a 660AV for $200. Should of really been a $20 second hand shop item as delivered:( Have a Quad Doubler to run the 040 at 50MHz to boost the 660AV a bit.

After pulling out the Q800, realizing the space required, and reassembly (I'd pretty much dismantled everything and shoved it in the tower before moving), decided to keep parts only and send to salvage the rest.

Unfortunately, the keyboard port for the 660AV seems buggered. The HD from the Q800 had yet the Power PC softs installed, and would fail to boot. Did manage to get one heavily contaminated floppy to read an FWB rescue disk, so know it does boot. Have 7.5.5 System on CD, but pretty sure unless the drive is "Mac compatible", the Yamaha dangling off the SCSI wouldn't boot from CD.

Until the KB issue is resolved, I'm kind of stuck. Do enjoy the size of the 660 case though. The main board could really fit into a FireBee case