TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by mikro »

That's what I meant -- that Petr carefully crafted his versions (1.04 & 2.06) with patches and stuff but 1.62 seems like ripped resources from 1.04 without any further patching (btw the About dialog still says "patched by Petr" but Petr's "Atari log" from those days doesn't mention anything about him translating it).
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by avtandil »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:10 pm Another strangeness with the uk version from avtandil's site. My compiled versions differs in two bytes.

That code results from https://github.com/th-otto/tos1x/blob/6 ... lib.c#L720 and his version pushes only a word for the fname parameter, which is a pointer. Both look like serious bugs to me in his image.
Hi, Thorsten,

what a great thing is Atari - after such a many years people still spending their time to recreate some code ! ;-)

I suppose we are talking about TOS 1.62 uk ? Actually there are two versions on my web-site, one is marked as English and another (you speak about) as English edited. I put the last also to collection because it was successfully running with STeem.

All my collection was made from several previous sources, some of them are not supported anymore. I just corrected some typical errors (like French version by the name of English etc) and checked if they are running under emulator.

Do you have some other discrepancies with my collection ? If so, please let me know and I will place your images there as well.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

avtandil wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:49 pm I suppose we are talking about TOS 1.62 uk ?
Yes. I originally took the non-edited version, because i assumed that the edited version also contains some patches, and i wanted to compare against original version. But it turns out that the edited version seems to be the correct one. I suggest to remove the faulty uk version from your site, and replace it by the "edited".
Do you have some other discrepancies with my collection ? If so, please let me know and I will place your images there as well.
Only the things i mentioned above about czech & swedish versions. But i'm currently investigating it, and it seems that there are actually only a few differences in the keyboard tables and the builtin desktop.inf.

I will also push the missing images in the next few days (ie 1.06 swedish, 1.62 italian etc) that are missing on your site. Maybe you want to add them.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

mikro wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:15 am (btw the About dialog still says "patched by Petr" but Petr's "Atari log" from those days doesn't mention anything about him translating it).
Yes, that is because i just copied over the resource files. They are identical for 1.04/1.06/1.62

BTW it turns that the differences in the czech & swedish versions are less than i first thought. It boils down to that:
  • the 1.04/1.06 versions have some patches for known bugs applied (like the boot device error), but the 1.62 version does not
  • There are some differences in the keyboard tables for shifted arrow keys. That should produce some ascii codes (and was also fixed in EmuTOS some time ago). I'm using the correct tables now.
  • In the builtin desktop.inf there are some differences in the #c line (thats set the default colors). That line is not evaluated by TOS, but only by the control panel. The changes are similar to the ones in VDI, ie. they apparently try to make use of the extended STE colors. However such changes are not present in other language versions, so i think it is better to leave that out. I'm also not sure whether that "hack" actually works, because they don't use the letter "F", but "?" (hex $3f) instead.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by avtandil »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:31 pm
avtandil wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:49 pm I suppose we are talking about TOS 1.62 uk ?
Yes. I originally took the non-edited version, because i assumed that the edited version also contains some patches, and i wanted to compare against original version. But it turns out that the edited version seems to be the correct one. I suggest to remove the faulty uk version from your site, and replace it by the "edited".
Is that version seriously buggy, so I should move it to the Broken TOS section ? Or I can just swap the names and put former 'edited' as a main one ?
Do you have some other discrepancies with my collection ? If so, please let me know and I will place your images there as well.
Only the things i mentioned above about czech & swedish versions. But i'm currently investigating it, and it seems that there are actually only a few differences in the keyboard tables and the builtin desktop.inf.

I will also push the missing images in the next few days (ie 1.06 swedish, 1.62 italian etc) that are missing on your site. Maybe you want to add them.
Doesn't matter, even if the difference is 1 byte, it is already another image.
OK, please let me know when you add all of that.

May I mention you as a contributor/author of those images ?
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

avtandil wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:13 pm Is that version seriously buggy,
Yes. I haven't tried, but i would assume it crashes right at the start.
I should move it to the Broken TOS section ?
Your choice. I would not recommend offering broken versions, especially if the problem is known, and people confirm that the "edited" version is identical to the ROMs.
OK, please let me know when you add all of that.
Should be available now.
May I mention you as a contributor/author of those images ?
Yes, if you want to.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

avtandil wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:49 pm Do you have some other discrepancies with my collection ?
Ah, almost forgot this. I've mentioned it already in the first post, but the dutch version of 1.04 is really strange. First off, it uses the language code 13 instead of the documented 14 in the header. But then, it is the only image where the length of the VDI text segment differs, causing all absolute addresses after that to differ. I cannot imagine that this is just a patched version. Do you know by chance where that image came from? It is the only dutch version on your site.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by avtandil »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:48 pm
avtandil wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:13 pm Is that version seriously buggy,
Yes. I haven't tried, but i would assume it crashes right at the start.
No, at least it is booting, otherwise I didn't include such a ROM to my collection.
I should move it to the Broken TOS section ?
Your choice. I would not recommend offering broken versions, especially if the problem is known, and people confirm that the "edited" version is identical to the ROMs.
Not agreed. Especially if the ROM is widespread, people should know that it is buggy. And I will put former 'edited' one as a main in several days, after coming back home. Also I will check more corrupted one.
OK, please let me know when you add all of that.
Should be available now.
May I mention you as a contributor/author of those images ?
Yes, if you want to.
Usually I just publish contributor on my news-page. But as in case with Dutch version, it maybe worth to be included in the table itself, maybe as a separate filed, or maybe just as a hint, so we can easily find where was such image came from.
Of course - every time with person confirmation, maybe someone would like to stay incognito.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by avtandil »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:21 pm
avtandil wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:49 pm Do you have some other discrepancies with my collection ?
Ah, almost forgot this. I've mentioned it already in the first post, but the dutch version of 1.04 is really strange. First off, it uses the language code 13 instead of the documented 14 in the header. But then, it is the only image where the length of the VDI text segment differs, causing all absolute addresses after that to differ. I cannot imagine that this is just a patched version. Do you know by chance where that image came from? It is the only dutch version on your site.
Actually I never investigate that. Above ROM exists on many of TOS - collections (incl TOSEC) and it is only version 1.04 .

If there is somebody from BeNeLux, could you maybe clarify that ?

I will try also to ask some people from Holland or Belgium privately.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ijor »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:43 am
ijor wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:59 pm But I expect you won't stop there ... still 1.02 and 1.00 to go :)
I don''t think that this make much sense. It is quite well known what was changed in version 1.04 compared to 1.02, ...
I doubt that all changes from 1.04 to 1.02 are known, let alone from 1.0. And even if so, besides the differences, I think that the possibility to compile older TOS versions is very useful in itself. But of course, you might disagree or whatever, it is completely up to you.

Btw, question: All TOS versions, at least 1.X and 2.X, were compiled with the same Alycon version?
... and i expect supporting that in the source would add again lots of ifdefs.
Well, if that is the main issue, it is always possible to put these older versions in a separate tree.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ijor »

avtandil wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:35 pm
ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:48 pm Your choice. I would not recommend offering broken versions, especially if the problem is known, and people confirm that the "edited" version is identical to the ROMs.
Not agreed. Especially if the ROM is widespread, people should know that it is buggy. And I will put former 'edited' one as a main in several days, after coming back home. Also I will check more corrupted one.
Please note that buggy is not an accurate description. It is a corrupted dump that was never a real TOS produced by Atari. Two bits are flipped in comparison to the "real" version for whatever reason.

I agree that it might be a good idea to keep it considering it is so widespread. But please signal crearly that it is corrupt.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

ijor wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:21 am Btw, question: All TOS versions, at least 1.X and 2.X, were compiled with the same Alycon version?
Yes. As explained in the README, i had to change the compiler and assembler to support automatic translation of function calls to linef traps in the 1.04 version, but the same compiler can again be used to compile the 2.x versions.
Well, if that is the main issue, it is always possible to put these older versions in a separate tree.
We'll see. It would be a lot of effort at least, since there are substantial differences in almost all parts.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

avtandil wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:35 pm Not agreed. Especially if the ROM is widespread, people should know that it is buggy.
Well i didn't know. And that version is not marked in any way, instead the correct version is marked as edited. It should be the other way around at least, and the buggy version marked as such.

Also i can't find a reason why to keep a version that apparently only has bugs due to some wrong dump, but not changes made on purpose.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

BTW, it is now also possible to apply some patches during compilation. Mostly bugfixes (those from the external programs like TOS14FIX, POOLFIX etc.), but also with Christian's IDE autoboot feature. This is currently the only way to create a french ROM with IDE autoboot (the french resource is too long, and does not leave enough room for the boot routine).
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

WINX patches for 1.06 have been updated and should work now.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

And finally patch files for 1.62 have now also been completed.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by avtandil »

avtandil wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:13 pm
ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:31 pm
avtandil wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:49 pm I suppose we are talking about TOS 1.62 uk ?
Yes. I originally took the non-edited version, because i assumed that the edited version also contains some patches, and i wanted to compare against original version. But it turns out that the edited version seems to be the correct one. I suggest to remove the faulty uk version from your site, and replace it by the "edited".
Is that version seriously buggy, so I should move it to the Broken TOS section ? Or I can just swap the names and put former 'edited' as a main one ?
I double checked versions from my collection and found that tos162uk.zip is still correct one, but tos162uk-a.zip is damaged. It shows two bombs while booting, but then still shows main screen. But hanging on running of any program.That was marked as damaged with hint that you find that and moved to the Broken TOS cell.

WiIl also check tomorrow which images from your project are still missing in the collection.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by avtandil »

avtandil wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:38 pm
ThorstenOtto wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:21 pm
avtandil wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:49 pm Do you have some other discrepancies with my collection ?
Ah, almost forgot this. I've mentioned it already in the first post, but the dutch version of 1.04 is really strange. First off, it uses the language code 13 instead of the documented 14 in the header. But then, it is the only image where the length of the VDI text segment differs, causing all absolute addresses after that to differ. I cannot imagine that this is just a patched version. Do you know by chance where that image came from? It is the only dutch version on your site.
Actually I never investigate that. Above ROM exists on many of TOS - collections (incl TOSEC) and it is only version 1.04 .

If there is somebody from BeNeLux, could you maybe clarify that ?

I will try also to ask some people from Holland or Belgium privately.
Regarding country code. IIRC there was a formula like (country code)*2+1, is it correct ? Which country list are you using - from Compendium ?

About Swiss French - was it ever exist as a real ROM ? I didn't hear about it before.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

avtandil wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:17 am Regarding country code. IIRC there was a formula like (country code)*2+1, is it correct ? Which country list are you using - from Compendium ?
Yes, the least significant bit is used for the PAL flag. You can take the list from Compendium (around page 158) or from Mint or from tos.hyp. For codes <= 16, they should be identical. The others are unofficial codes which were not defined by Atari.
About Swiss French - was it ever exist as a real ROM ? I didn't hear about it before.
For 1.62, i have a version here (can't remember where i got that from). The others are compiled from sources. It's essentially a french version, with a slightly different keyboard table (and handler).
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by wongck »

OT but country code related (kind of)....
I am just thinking....
Does Mintlib included string ( like the month of the year for example) takes into account the country language?
I mean does Mintlib takes these information from the TOS ?
( does TOS even have these generic strings defined for each day/month name ? )
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

No, i doesn't. That would be task of functions like setlocale(), and locale-aware versions of functions like strftime(), toupper() etc. They are not implemented, and doing so would make the generated programs even larger.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by wongck »

ah ok.... may be only possible when there are shared libraries, specific for each language, so the PRG wouldn't be so large.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by avtandil »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:49 pm
avtandil wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:17 am Regarding country code. IIRC there was a formula like (country code)*2+1, is it correct ? Which country list are you using - from Compendium ?
Yes, the least significant bit is used for the PAL flag.
Quite interesting.
Was it PAL and NTSC flags only ? And what about France where they use SECAM system ?
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ThorstenOtto »

Hm, dunno about france, but in the official ROMs, only the US version has the PAL flag cleared. All other european versions have it set.
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Re: TOS 1.04 sources reconstructed

Post by ojanhk »

To my knowledge there were no ST with SECAM. Actually, I’m not even sure version with modulator were sold here. By the time the ST was released, SCART connector with RVB was mandatory on all TV sets and all the French ST I’ve seen so far were PAL using the RVB out (there is no CVBS neither ).
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