Medusa Scandoubler announced!

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Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by DarkLord »

Check it out - a new scan-doubler called Medusa from Lotharek and Acidmaker (creator of SIO2SD).

Retro Lemon and Lotharek both have it listed:

https://tinyurl.com/2p93ft5p

https://www.lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=135

Pictures, stats and videos on both web sites but I'll post a picture of the device here:

medusa-retro-scandoubler.png

Looks interesting (if a bit high-priced)...
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by evil »

It looks interesting, I wonder if it handles interlaced/progressive switching seamlessly on Falcon and other machines that can do it like Jaguar, Amiga.

OSSC and the Framemeister are very crappy at that part with a huge blackout in both video and audio during the switch.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by EvilFranky »

evil wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:54 pm It looks interesting, I wonder if it handles interlaced/progressive switching seamlessly on Falcon and other machines that can do it like Jaguar, Amiga.

OSSC and the Framemeister are very crappy at that part with a huge blackout in both video and audio during the switch.
http://medusa-sc.org/index.php?title=Description

Unless I'm not understanding this correctly, I think the Medusa will exhibit the same behaviour?

With such approach to screen conversion (simple line doubling) any resolution change on input will also lead to resolution change on output. Even small change will usually cause a black screen on the displaying device (for about 0.5 - 1 second). This is normal - this is how displaying devices work. The only way to circumvent that would be to constantly display a picture in a chosen resolution (for example 1920x1080@60) and sample pixels from input and put them in a displayed framebuffer. But in this approach a lot of problems would occur. For example all 50Hz scrolls would be jagged. This is why we decided not to do that. Also the device would be much more expensive.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by simonsunnyboy »

Do I understand correctly, audio is mixed properly into the DVI jack so only a single DVI->HDMI cable is required to get picture plus audio via HDMI?
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by troed »

That's my understanding, yes.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by Count »

simonsunnyboy wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:32 pm Do I understand correctly, audio is mixed properly into the DVI jack so only a single DVI->HDMI cable is required to get picture plus audio via HDMI?
No, DVI (i.e. Digital Visual Interface) does not provide any audio.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by troed »

Count wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:43 am No, DVI (i.e. Digital Visual Interface) does not provide any audio.
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads ... t.2215424/
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by PeterS »

Wasn't there a TT clone called Medusa ?
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by AdamK »

Count wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:43 am
simonsunnyboy wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:32 pm Do I understand correctly, audio is mixed properly into the DVI jack so only a single DVI->HDMI cable is required to get picture plus audio via HDMI?
No, DVI (i.e. Digital Visual Interface) does not provide any audio.
As DVI digital protocol is compatible with HDMI, there are unofficial extensions to DVI providing audio (but only over digital output).
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by evil »

EvilFranky wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:38 pm
evil wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:54 pm It looks interesting, I wonder if it handles interlaced/progressive switching seamlessly on Falcon and other machines that can do it like Jaguar, Amiga.

OSSC and the Framemeister are very crappy at that part with a huge blackout in both video and audio during the switch.
http://medusa-sc.org/index.php?title=Description

Unless I'm not understanding this correctly, I think the Medusa will exhibit the same behaviour?

With such approach to screen conversion (simple line doubling) any resolution change on input will also lead to resolution change on output. Even small change will usually cause a black screen on the displaying device (for about 0.5 - 1 second). This is normal - this is how displaying devices work. The only way to circumvent that would be to constantly display a picture in a chosen resolution (for example 1920x1080@60) and sample pixels from input and put them in a displayed framebuffer. But in this approach a lot of problems would occur. For example all 50Hz scrolls would be jagged. This is why we decided not to do that. Also the device would be much more expensive.
Thanks for clearing it up.

What a shame. The Retrotink 5x claims to do it seamless, but it lacks VGA input. Can't ever be fully happy I guess :)
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by troed »

evil wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:59 am What a shame. The Retrotink 5x claims to do it seamless, but it lacks VGA input. Can't ever be fully happy I guess :)
The only way to guarantee that a screen won't black out on resolution change is if the converter always run in the same output resolution regardless of input. That's how GBS Control does it. But my understanding is that Retrotink 5x doesn't? Like Medusa. If so, it's not really the converter doing anything but the connected displays ..
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by Count »

AdamK wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:47 am
Count wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:43 am
simonsunnyboy wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:32 pm Do I understand correctly, audio is mixed properly into the DVI jack so only a single DVI->HDMI cable is required to get picture plus audio via HDMI?
No, DVI (i.e. Digital Visual Interface) does not provide any audio.
As DVI digital protocol is compatible with HDMI, there are unofficial extensions to DVI providing audio (but only over digital output).
Ah, ok. It's an unofficial extension and its use with Medusa optional.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by stormy »

troed wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:35 pm
evil wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:59 am What a shame. The Retrotink 5x claims to do it seamless, but it lacks VGA input. Can't ever be fully happy I guess :)
The only way to guarantee that a screen won't black out on resolution change is if the converter always run in the same output resolution regardless of input. That's how GBS Control does it. But my understanding is that Retrotink 5x doesn't? Like Medusa. If so, it's not really the converter doing anything but the connected displays ..
If the Medusa doesn't offer anything more than OSSC then it will be difficult to explain it's reason for existance, OSSC is cheaper than the Medusa price point right now.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by AdamK »

Compared to OSSC, Medusa has additional composite and s-vide input. It seems to have some kind of auto detection capability, so it might be way easier to configure than OSSC. And you'll get real HW support&sevice which I doubt that chinese produced OSSC have.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by troed »

stormy wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:02 pm If the Medusa doesn't offer anything more than OSSC
That's covered on the information page.
Why Medusa?

This is actually a very good question. There are a lot of devices that do similar things. The only problem is ... I've tried almost all of them (FrameMeister included). They all lacked something.
  • Cheap Chinese devices use chips designed for TV's, with a lot of features that are good in case of movies but unacceptable in case of computers (few frames of latency). Also picture quality is horrible - RGB signal is sampled with constant ratio - not in sync with original pixels. They can't accept anything other than PAL or NTSC-like signals (forget about ST-mono or Amiga-AGA funny resolutions).
  • FrameMeister - a very good device, but expensive. It also accepts only PAL and NTSC-like resolution (no ST-mono etc.).
  • OSSC - also a very good device, but without composite video and s-video inputs. Only good for RGB signals. Tough to configure.
http://medusa-sc.org/index.php?title=Description
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by DarkLord »

I agree about support (and quality). It's Lotharek, after all.

My next question is, has anyone fitted an OSSC inside of an ST?

Just curious...
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by stormy »

DarkLord wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:16 pm I agree about support (and quality). It's Lotharek, after all.

My next question is, has anyone fitted an OSSC inside of an ST?

Just curious...
Well there isn't any point, if you're going to do that you're much better off installing RGBtoHDMI Pi converter.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by DarkLord »

stormy wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:59 pm Well there isn't any point, if you're going to do that you're much better off installing RGBtoHDMI Pi converter.
Well, that kinda was my point about the Medusa. I'm not really sure from the picture
as to it's size, but does it look like it could be mounted internally? Thanks...
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by stormy »

It wouldn't make any sense to fit a Medusa or an ossc inside an ST. Not while the Pi Rgbtohdmi adaptor exists.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by Badwolf »

DarkLord wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:43 am Well, that kinda was my point about the Medusa. I'm not really sure from the picture
as to it's size, but does it look like it could be mounted internally? Thanks...
It's got a scart connector, a DVI connector and a VGA connector on it.

SCART is about 50x20. A Pi zero is 66x30mm.

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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by DarkLord »

The point I was attempting to make (in my usual clumsy manner) was
that, if the Medusa can be fitted internally without too much soldering,
and effort, with it's "extra's" then it might actually find a niche market.

That's vs trying to fit an OSSC, RetroTink or Framemeister internally...

I can't speak for anyone else but I would much prefer an internal solution
(such as the RGB2HDMI or potentially the Medusa) to yet another box
sitting on my desktop with an every increasing number of cables...

Thanks.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by mlynn1974 »

It is a tad expensive. I would like to see a test with an arcade game. Some purists would of course still say CRTs are still the best with no need for scan doublers but for practicality I think modern displays are the way forward.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by Avanze »

Thanks for the notification on this one, DarkLord. I pre-ordered one today. I already have a Framemeister but I love new stuff and hopefully this will get regular firmware updates, Mega Drive and Commodore 64 would be a great addition.
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by DarkLord »

No problem. I know so many of us have been interested in some kind of (any kind of!)
working scan-doubler for the ST. I'm looking at doing a color screen (again) in my STacy
like Derkom did over at Exxo's Forum so I'll probably go with the RGB2HDMI as it seems
a better choice for the STacy but I'm sure I'll get a Medusa for "whatevers" before it's
over with. :)

If you don't care, after your order comes in and you've had a chance to play with it,
post a "hands on" report here and let us all know what you think. Thanks!
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Re: Medusa Scandoubler announced!

Post by Avanze »

DarkLord wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:19 amIf you don't care, after your order comes in and you've had a chance to play with it,
post a "hands on" report here and let us all know what you think. Thanks!
Yes, absolutely. I have a few systems to test out.
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